Somewhere to Chat.

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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby gingertom » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:25 pm

Toss wrote:
Snowhite wrote:I'm certainly no builder but I do recall my hubby (taxi driver) telling me about picking a guy up from a building site/ apartment block in the Pottery rd/ Johnstown rd area about 10 odd yrs ago and he said he wouldn't touch any of the apartments that were being built at that time with a barge pole, as they were not being built to certain standards, something to do with the external wall and internal wall cavity, isn't this what they are saying is wrong with the school buildings ?? If yes ....... Like everything that seems to come to light here it's only the tip of the iceberg.


From what I can gather, the builders cut corners on fixings and in doing so their work is questionable. For example, if a carpenter fixes a large fire resistant door using 20mm screws instead of the recommended 50mm because its handy .... the door will not be secure and stable for very long. Some builders will always use whatever they have at hand in order to save time and money (its the nature of the beast), but proper supervision should see this and stop the process. As I said previously, the needs of the education system for pupils and the rise in further education has led to a myriad of non-manual jobs in the construction industry. For example, heres a short list of site management roles :

Architect
Civil Engineer
Safety Director
Construction Engineer
Building Services Director
Senior Manager – Construction
Chief Construction Officer
Quantity Surveyor
Project Manager
Building Services Engineer
Construction Assistant
Structural Engineer
Assistant Project Manager
Building Inspector
Purchasing Coordinator
Construction Coordinator
Project Assistant
Project Manager
Site Manager
Superintendent
Safety Manager
Purchasing Coordinator
Scheduler
Construction Assistant
Construction Foreman
Construction Manager
Construction Superintendent
Construction Supervisor
Contract Administrator
Contract Manager
Estimator

That list is far from complete, but it shows how the industry has changed as the race for qualifications evolved. It now takes 4/5 people to do what one person used to do and therein lies the problem ..... too many chiefs, too many opinions and too many filling the same space so you end up with chaos as they all blame each other when disaster strikes. All of the above are highly qualified people after being put through a third level course in order to have a label that puts them above a tradesman .... in doing this, they devalue the trades and we wonder why things go wrong ?



Plenty of interesting hearsay in your opinion Toss. But I wonder if a visceral point in your reasoning shows that we do need oversight and it must be delegated for it to be applicable and effective. When one issue is parsed by one individual it is arguable that only an unilateral application will be undertaken. Therefore it is wise to have multiple individuals empowered with oversight on any issue regarding our construction projects, however big and small.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:41 am

Very informative stuff,never worked on a building site so have very little knowledge of what's involved. But from observation there does not seem to be more people working on a site than there use to be. For me the problem of shoddy work is a lack of independent inspection. Greedy people will, whether they are bankers or builders will always take shortcuts to boost profits.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Toss » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm

I hear what you are saying GT, but my point is that Ireland has gone down the academic route very rapidly and the increase in all sorts of educational institutions along with the increased certification that comes with it, has seen a race for success that is fuelled by the need for huge pass rates thanks to benchmarking. Having multiple individuals empowered with oversight on building sites may be fine, but only so long as those in such positions are competent, experienced and capable .... and not just rushed through a system and handed a qualification for a job because it suits the educational agenda. To give you an example:

In 1975, 370 young people started their Carpentry & Joinery apprenticeship training in Linenhall Tech, Bolton Street. It was a 5 year course having previously been 7 years. At the end of that five years only 70 sat their Senior Trade exams and only 7 passed both practical and theory exams to gain a full Senior Tradesmans certifcate ... that is 7 from 370 starters. Back then only the best was good enough and you studied hard to succeed. Today nobody fails unless they quit, the standards issue is fudged due the need for success and there is a clear push to keep young people in the education system as long as possible .... this is all numbers related and basically is killing the trades as more and more are directed towards the less physical jobs that have emerged in the building industry.

I Googled 'Construction Management courses' ..
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1920&bih=977&ei=gDHgW7nAKsnagAbMgL_gAw&q=construction+management+courses+ireland&oq=construction+management+courses+ireland&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0j0i7i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i7i5i30k1j0i8i30k1l2.13408.16459.0.19960.12.12.0.0.0.0.83.840.12.12.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.12.836...0i8i7i30k1.0.JIcktxW_KQg
there are pages of places offering such training. Lets be conservative and say 15 places of Education offer such courses (there are more) and each one needs 15 students to run the course, thats 225 students and the chances are the pass rate is above 70% (again conservative) ....thats almost 160 new Construction Managers per annum.

Nobody will say it, but we are overloading the system ... its now a numbers game thanks to benchmarking and quality is usually the first thing to suffer in such scenarios.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby skins » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:42 pm

For any of you who haven't seen it before, this should bring back memories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JewE4iZ5Obs
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Sinead » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Skins, thank you, that was fantastic, great memories of those weeks, not a spare bed to be found in Dun Laoghaire or surrounding areas. Lovely to see some familiar faces. Strange to see the number of smokers then, it was an every day thing.

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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Rocker » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:19 am

Skins that is great. I remember those races in the early 60's (I think). A cousin of mine was a great cyclist and we used to go to watch the races. The thing that struck me about the video is the dapper suits of all the lads and of course the cigarettes.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Micheál » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:32 am

Remarkable . .
No Lycra!
Full on kissing :D
Where did they put the dogs?

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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Rocker » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:33 am

Micheál wrote:Remarkable . .
No Lycra!
Full on kissing :D
Where did they put the dogs?

M.


:lol: :lol: I was going to mention those points :lol: :lol: :lol: your woman Miss D/L cycle week was full on :shock: none of your peck on the cheek. I don't remember too many dogs in my youth. If you had one he was brought out at specific times on his lead and usually sat at home in his kennel. There was no money in breeding dogs..we all had mongrels!! As for the Lycra 8-) 8-) what do you think to the comment that the jersies were woollen and stretched...they must have been so clumsy and sweaty too...as an aside I remember my mother used to knit the swimsuits and the weight of the water would almost drown you!!!
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby skins » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:15 pm

That's right, Rocker. On emerging from the sea the bottom of the togs was so heavy with water that we all looked like the Elephant Man.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby jabra » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:38 pm

Skins
That was a fantastic piece to watch. Yes plenty of smokers in those days and all the old cars Austins,Morris Minor's Ford's not a Japanese model in sight.

Not forgetting the old Sleith's van at the beginning of the clip. I recognised one of the cyclists Tommy Shepard who was a neighbour at the time and was a

member of the Loraine cycling club at the time. Great Stuff.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:39 pm

That was brilliant,really enjoyed it.The smoking was something else. The Race was always something you looked forward to. I remember it well and the excitement it brought to the Town. Cycling seemed to be dominated by a number of families: the Crinnion's, Mc Quaid's, Kennedy', Lally's, Roche's, Mc Cormack's. And we had our own Con Enright and I remember Shay Elliot was in it one year and he went on to compete in the Tour De France which was a big deal then. Also, Liam Horner(RIP) who went to Eblana with us and went on to represent Ireland in the Olympics.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby skins » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:28 am

And don't forget Tommy Campbell, who was in our class, and is still very much involved with Bray Wheelers and Irish Cycling.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:56 pm

skins wrote:And don't forget Tommy Campbell, who was in our class, and is still very much involved with Bray Wheelers and Irish Cycling.

Denis wrote:
Yeah Tommie. I remember meeting him when I was working in the GPO and we were issuing a stamp on cycling and he was the contact for background information. It was the same old Tommie with that real happy smile. Great fella.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby skins » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Yes indeed, Den, one of those unsung heroes you never see on the winners' podiums, but whose dedication keeps all sport moving along. I see quite a lot of cyclists pass by my house on their weekend training runs, but I don't know if there are any clubs still surviving in the Boro'.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:50 pm

I don't remember there ever been an organised cycling club in the The Boro. Apart from Con Enright, Liam Horner and Mick Davis there's no one else that I know that were in anyway prominent in the sport.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby skins » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:15 pm

I think County Dublin Road Club were based in the Boro, Denis, and Sorrento originated in Dalkey before moving down to your neck of the woods.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:54 am

They don't register with me,but that's no surprise I spent most of me childhood thinking soccer was the only sport and now look at the state that that is in.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Rocker » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:11 pm

Now you have me on Google checking on cycling clubs. Here is a nice piece about the formation of the Sorrento Cycling club in 1968

http://www.sorrentocyclingclub.com/about/

what about this cycle route from Booterstown to Dún Laoghaire

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/fi ... _final.pdf

and our very own Mikes Bikes
https://mikesbikes.goldenpages.ie/

the only thing I buy in there are my rehydrating tablets.
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Denis Cromie » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:04 pm

I remember Larry Doran,he married Nuala Leonard,who worked in Bolands when I worked there. I knew he was a keen cyclist but never associated him with a cycling club and it just shows how blinkered I am I've never come across the Sorrento/Delgany/Greystones club in the 32 years I've been down here. There is none so blind as those who don't wish to see
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Sinead » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:11 pm

The Doyle's from Monksown Farm were another involved in cycling - Tommy is the one I remember, he in later life was a painter and decorator.

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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby jabra » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:38 pm

Yes indeed Sinead Tommy Doyle was involved in cycling . Tommy is married to my wife's sister he is retired now and living in Arklow.
A couple of the Howe brothers also from the farm were cyclists along with Pat and Ger O'Connell from Ashgrove
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Re: Somewhere to Chat.

Postby Toss » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:34 pm

.

Signs the worlds gone mad #617

Imagine earning more than a massive euro millions lotto jackpot every year .......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bet365-denise-coates-boss-pay-265-million-pounds-salary-a8645351.html
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