Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

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Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Gulliver » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:42 pm

I did an analysis for the Dun Laoghaire traders recently which was covered by the Sindo last weekend. It made sorry reading. Here are the extracts which were reported

"In all 69 traders responded to the survey which found:

* 43 per cent of traders reported a downward trend in business activity in 2011 compared with previous years.

* 40 per cent have reduced their staff numbers.

* 55 per cent have been hit by increased costs.

* 51 per cent had their rates valuation unchanged and 29 per cent of traders had their rates increased. Only 20 per cent had their rates decreased.

* 30 per cent of businesses expect a downward trend in business activity in 2012 and a further 15 per cent say they expect no change, giving a total of 45 per cent who expect no improvement.

But there is a real perception among retailers and other businesses of failed parking control in the area with 80 per cent considering the current tough regulation and enforcement as "bad".

Traffic management is perceived as a failure, with only 17 per cent considering it good. By contrast, Dun Laoghaire is considered to have good street lighting, street cleaning and water services.

More than 90 per cent of businesses expressed the view that parking charges are expensive.

Only 6 per cent considered that they were well-represented by their politicians."

For the full article, read here:-
http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 67688.html

Now, is there any way that we could use the power of communities like the members of this site to come up with progressive ideas to help in this situation.

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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby grammer » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:51 pm

Great article Gulliver and well researched -
================================
I think the problem is more wider than parking rates -
The town centre has nothing going for it -everything from paving the section of Georges St. to traffic wardens have been blamed on the fall off in the town.
try buying a pair of shoes in the town -there is still a picket on one-
the others are overpriced and can offer you any colour as long as its black-
apart from a small Dunnes Stores and Penneys all the other shops prices are too high-
I Know you only get what you pay for in most cases -
Its a sad reflection on the other businesses when the €2 is the busiest in the town -
where the town goes from here is anyones guess-
but why not stand on the corner of Marine road and ask people what in their opinion is wrong with the town
they after all are the ones who no longer really shop there-
sent from my PC and typed on a keyboard (old fashioned black colour) using three fingers
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:55 pm

Oh Gulliver,

I have to get out my big hobby horse. Parking charges. Since they imposed parking charges and terrorist parking wardens in DunLaoghaire I never shop there. Tesco in Bloomfields used to give so many hours free if one shopped there and I could dash around the other shops in the time but they altered that too. Ccllr Niamh Breathnach called to my house electioneering a number of years ago and I complained about this and the all day charging near the DART Stations. She said in a disbelieving tone "sure its only 5 Euro a day" I said multiply that by 340 and that the price of a good holiday she still thinks I am mad. Myother one is if one stops in Sandycove, Dalkey DunLaoghaire and Blackrock one has to buy a new ticket each time even if there is time on the last ticket. Taking the bus off Georges Street, altering the 46A from the Farm, no number 8 from Dalkey all makes people think twice about DunLaoghaire as a shopping venue.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Holla » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:31 pm

We had this talk before (can"t find the thread) I know we were all agreed on the parking been" OTT"I remember suggesting one of the big name stores like marks and spencer would be good anchor tennants for the shoping center(not a foodstore) ,some hobby shops ,camera shop ,fishing gear,what about an indoor play area in the peoples park for the rainy days to drop the kids off and go shopping,loyalty points on your parking receipts you could then claim a parking token for the parking machine perhaps some of the shops could get involved in this parking token/loyalty the town is a sad place and in need of help bigtime
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Gulliver » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:35 pm

Rocker
If you play the rules, you can do well at Bloomfields, assuming that you buy €30 worth.

If you park your car, buy €30.01 worth, and show your ticket at the cashdesk, they will reduce your bill by the value of 2 hours parking, i.e. €4.80, so your bill is now €25.21. If you complete your shopping and exit within the hour, you will pay parking charge €2.40, thus your full cost is now €27.61, including parking. Strange as it seems, the actually pay you to park.

If you are going to the cinema, parking is free (but be careful, it is only for 2.5 hours... so it pays to look up the running time of the movie in advance)

On parking in general, that is a major problem for the traders, and they cannot get their local councillors to respond to that. That's the whole point of the survey. No point in addressing it to me or to the traders, bring it to your DLR council member.... although in reality, these decisions on parking seem to be made by the county management, and not by councillors.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby budgie » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:40 pm

rocker,i have never heard a more apt and fitting name for the traffic wardens as terrorists,fair play.i have sat in my car on numerous occasions in glasthule watching these reprobates work.when they come across a car which is just out of payment time, they hover for the 15 minutes grace allowed and then pounce.i wonder are they taught to do this or are they all handpicked for their natural extreme lack of compassion. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Holla » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:44 pm

where do the councillors park in the county hall car park for free i would think so they wont be too worried about the price of an hours parking in the town
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Gulliver » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:03 pm

grammer wrote:Great article Gulliver and well researched -
================================
I think the problem is more wider than parking rates -


Of course the problem is much wider - but a Sunday newspaper does not give total coverage to the full details. I was good to get almost half a page. My role was that as a retired statistics guy, I crunched the numbers and provided the conclusions. The traders may decide in their own time to publish further details. But we all know what the problems are.

We need to address solutions, not spend all our time analysing problems

Dun Laoghaire needs initiatives from within the community to help to move forward. There will never be sufficient external help to develop the area, and so it's a self-help set of solutions which are needed. Although my own initiative is not in the town centre, I am chairman of a company which has provided 5 new high skill jobs in the Monkstown Farm area (unfortunately, the skills do not match local needs, but at least some of the spend of our guys is done locally).

Are there opportunities to get a community initiative going to help clean up the place, to improve the image, to organise a good festival. You will recall that I looked for help to improve the Wikipedia page "Dun Laoghaire". Every little helps. Come on- lets think positive!!!!!
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Gulliver » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:03 pm

Seem to have hit a few sensitive spots!!!!!
Last edited by Gulliver on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Sinead » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:46 pm

Guilliver:

Dun Laoghaire no longer has a 'COMMUNITY' and therein lies the problem. The local authority and the original shopping center killed it years ago. To retain a 'COMMUNITY' you must have a mix of age groups living in the an area. Young residents were moved out of the center of Dun Laoghaire
and an aging population was left to fend for themselves with an influx of undesireables.
Lambe, the Fish Monger, on occasion, gives 1Euro parking concessions, they are very useful.

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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Holla » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:56 pm

Lambe, the Fish Monger, on occasion, gives 1Euro parking concessions, they are very useful.

Sinead[/quote]

well al least someone is trying its a start
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Enviro500 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:05 pm

Gang,

Well, as my Dad would say, "Well that bates Banaher" and I still do not know the relevance of that one !!...Gulliver certainly has struck a chord indeed. I am GLAD and I am SAD that I don't live in my hometown now....I have lived away twice as long as I lived there, 45 years away.. It will still be home to me and I go home regularly...Many of the posters here are like myself, expats and proud at that as well. I am sorry to hear of the lovely towns despair and it must be said that us expats would appreciate the memories of our times in the young days there.

My childrens yearly highlights were coming home to see Nana & Grandad and the Ferry ride too..They are now 40 and 38 respectively and still consider themselves Irish though born & bred in Shepherds Bush/Hammersmith and both travel on Irish passports...

Recent years in Dun Laoghaire I must say I have noticed the changes, but we ALSO are not without our difficulties even in prosperous Buckinghamshire, the Capital of Cromwell Country...!!! We have have a dying old town centre, Parking by the Aylesbury District Council is over £1 per hour etc Bus fares are expensive, Diesel is now £1.50 a litre....when we can get it that is.. The up side is that there is a lot of competition in the Shops and a bottle of decent wine is about £5.50 but much cheaper, reasonable grog is available.. Food is reasonalby priced.
My brother. liiving in Dun Laoghaire is contemplating his two grown up kids emigrating to Oz...It is like full circle again we went in the mid 1960s..

I hope and no doubt you will win back your town and make it good again. perhaps a few more political parties with give you more choice, that said with all our parties we managed a hung Parliament this time, and then there was the debacle at Bradford by election last week with a terrorist supporter winning...and you guys have to worry about your Taliban Wardens..there are more I am told in training at the PARKING COLLEGE in Kandahar...I don't have an answer for you guys, but as I said before, controversially, it works here when they take to the streets, Poll Tax, Street Riots, Blocking Motorways etc. Currently we are threatened locally, a couple of miles from my dooor, with the HS2 (HIGH SPEED) Railway. at a cost of probable £32 Billion to save 20 minutes off the London Brummie run.....Perhaps, dare I say it, the time for Nationalism is moving closer..

Good luck and better times Dun Laoghaire, we love the place warts and all

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Last edited by Enviro500 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:43 pm

Enviro,

You said it "we love the place". So we will have to start from there. Gulliver, you have put it up to us and it will take a time to brainstorm and think of somethings. We have talent, brains, youth, older folk in the town and surrounding places. I am not a leader nor a business brain and have never started or run a business but I'll put on my thinking cap.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Toss » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:49 pm

Dun Laoghaire is no different to most other towns around the country ..... there are a number of really good decent local people trying to keep the boat afoat but in reality its a lost cause. Society has moved on from what we imagine it should be ... was a time when you knew the Bus conductor, you knew the person serving you, you knew the garda on the street, you knew the bin men, you knew who drank in what pub and you knew the priests (remember them :o ) and you knew you would meet a friend or two in town.

Now we drive in (complaining about parking) and nobody has time to talk, everything is unfriendy and automatic, nobody stops to look up and nobody really cares ..... our towns, our cities and our country is now a multi national non entity lacking all the values we grew up with. People are on the phone as they shop, walk and talk (txt), but dare you interrupt. Families are now far more spread out with young couples buying houses miles away so generating a community is very difficult.

Time and tide waits for no man ..... all changed, changed utterly .... you know what I mean, there is no going back.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:57 pm

Toss,
No way. I am dragging you back with me. Even if we have to get two chairs and a little table and play chess or snakes and ladders on the seafront as they do in French towns then we will do the road boules along the Carlisle pier, Tie chi on the pier and Irish dancing classes at the band stand we have to go back -onwards does not appeal to me - this is a recession we are talking about - recession =going back
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby keeper » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:33 pm

Sorry Rocker, I have to agree with Toss, he said it all, and it's not just Dun Laoghaire, next time you are travelling by car, don't use the motorways, go the"old" road and see the devastation in the bypassed towns and villages that relied on the passing trade, the amount of old favourite pubs and shops that are closed up is sad. The parking is a major problem along with Hitlerite wardens but there is nothing to draw people in to shop or browse, why should they? when they can go to major shopping centres with multiple outlets and free parking in most cases. What Dun Laoghaire does have are the wonderful piers and sea front, I don't know if it still happens or not, but Sundays always saw a brass band, mainly the I.T.G.W.U Band on the Pier or the People's Park, the Town needs a focal point. Sinead is also correct in my opinion, also, as I mentioned elsewhere, I really believe the car ferry ruined the town also, when there was only the Mailboat, visitors stayed in the town before moving on, or shopped or ate and drank while waiting to sail or before travelling on, when the ferry arrived the cars just streamed out of the port and onwards, progress ???
I wish you luck, but I can see you in court for criminal damage if you are not accurate with your road "bowlin'" and there is no question but you'll have a parking fine if you sit playing chess for any length of time in the one spot, that skinny warden can hide behind lamposts !!!
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Toss » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:08 am

Dancer wrote: I did however go into a shop just up the road from the shopping centre and the staff were very friendly and good craic and when I left , I emerged at the main street once again - now that ,I liked !!


Was it Dunphys, Weirs or Lockys ???? :D :D :D

Seriously though, when I thought of it ...... one of the differences today is we are bound by regulations and fear. If you drive then you are open to all sorts of issues from not being able to have one drink to protecting your car and of course the never ending parking cash cow. If you get the bus, theres no conductor ..... you have to have the right fare, the people are all stressed out and you run the risk of getting a load of teenage loud mouths acting up, you have to mind your belongings and to be honest I often feel that buses are not safe anymore. Then when you actually get into town you are under surveilance at all times and not necessarily from the authorities ..... how many of us feel comfortable withdrawing cash from am ATM in the street?

We have become far too obsessed with the wrong type of rules ....... oh you parked in the wrong place - cha ching! oh you dont have the correct fare - cha ching! even going to the bank has changed - you are charged for every action - cha ching!!! I used to be involved in community events until the DLRCC decided that we needed regulations)..... the good has been taken out of community events, its all insurance / rules and regulations even the Dun Laoghaire Horse show has disappeared :( . All of this petty governance is designed to get easy money while the real criminals (like the muggers and bag snatchers) are never really dealth with in such an instant manner.

To balance it out, we are better off / better fed and better educated than our grandparents ...... its just that the community spirit is now only flickering and far from being promoted - it is opposed unless its coming through the official channels. Its a different world and the feeling I have is that we threw the baby out with the bathwater in the name of progress.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Denis Cromie » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:57 am

It's a sad tale.Sinéad is right you can't moved large sections of the population and it not have some effects and the building of the first Shopping Centre took the heart out of the Town. That said there is so much fondnest for the Town that a few well thought out measures could re-vitalise it. Parking is one and maybe a few reasonable eating places would be another. It's very hard for small retailers to compete against the out -of -town Shopping Centres that surround Dun laoghaire but niche shops like Hick's can be successful and maybe a few more Vera Shortall's, though the Health & Safety bods would frown on that. I must say that I'm very impressed with the development down by the Pavilion and the location of the new Library and the re-opening of the Maritime Museum down there should bring more people in. Maybe the future lies in developing the potential of,apart from the people, the Town's greatest asset, The Pier.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Rocker » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:19 pm

Denis,

You might have it - the pier. I have been thinking all morning about DunLaoghaire and what comes to mind is sunny days on the pier, bands playing on the bandstand, ice creams, English tourists and wonderful places to have tea and scones along Sandycove sitting out looking at the sea, Teddys Ice cream. What about Nostalgia weekends not aimed at the young but at the older over 50's crowd. A brass band on the pier, Jazz-Rock Fox in the park, deck chairs on the pier, tea and scones along the new paved area outside the Pavillion. A romantic comedy or a 60's night in the Pavillion Theatre at night Teddys ice cream set up in the park and pier as well as their shop, cheap DART tickets so people would leave their cars outside DunLaoghaire. There could be ancillary events at Purty kitchen, Monkstown, Glasthule or maybe I am loosing the run of myself !!
Too many events are geared for children with face painting and bouncy castles and those farmer markets stalls this dissuades the like of me!!
Shops in the town could have a special nostalgia event - produce your ticket to the maratime museum and get 10 per cent discount etc. The band could play from the pier along Marine road to Georges street encouraging people to follow and view the shops. A treasure hunt from one end of the town to the other with simple but effective prizes. If boats could be involved trips to Dalkey and back with a commentary.
O.K I am throwing that out - dont all jump on me!!
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Denis Cromie » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:06 pm

I'm with you there Rocker,let's use what we've got and target people that love the place, as Enviro says, warts and all.
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Gulliver » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:13 pm

Rocker

It's perfect. There are lots of older folk in the area and lots of organisations which would love to help. There is a massive number of suitable items which could be developed at minimal cost. And the older folk have some disposable income, despite all the protests you hear from them.
Nostalgia entertainment - vintage plays, old films, older style dancing (showband type or earlier, céile dancing??)
Nostalgia concerts
Nostalgia transport - vintage cars, bicycles, motor bikes, boats
Nostalgia competitions - chess, bowling, vintage pub quiz, etc
Nostalgia menus - bacon & cabbage, Dublin Coddle, Black Pud, Birds custard, semolina & sago
History & Genealogy lectures
Senior citizens advice centre
Vintage market & Auction
If I spent an hour, I could come up with a much longer list.
How about we put down all of the ideas from this group and assemble them into a proposal which we could put to the various business organisations, and if some support it, then it might be brought to the DLRCoCo
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Enviro500 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:47 pm

Gulliver,

Don't forget....
Nostalgia buses, there is a wealth of them within 14 of Dun Laoghaire preserved some pre "Emergency" or if you like WW II

Just let me know the dates !!!
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby budgie » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:27 pm

the coloured lanterns which were hung from the trees in winter months from marine road to the baths and lit until 11 pm would be a welcome comeback,for seafront and east pier strollers,local and visitor alike. :?: :?:
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Rocker » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:17 pm

Budgie,

Your avatar reminds me we could ask the Railway Preservation Society to base the steam train at DunLaoghaire and do jaunts to Bray or some such,

and Strum in pride of place doing charactures/ cartoon drawings (Do you do those Strum?)
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Re: Dun Laoghaire, recession, costs, failed representation

Postby Strum » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 pm

Rocker wrote:and Strum in pride of place doing charactures/ cartoon drawings (Do you do those Strum?)


Frayed Knot Rocker. :D
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