Know yer town do ye?

The Town and its People past and present...

Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Strum wrote:
gingertom wrote: The case of Charles Manson does come to mind in terms of inducing others to perpetrate crime by proxy,


What about organised begging on our streets which involves women and very young Children who are induced or coerced into doing what they do by, what I would call Pimps. For instance I have seen this girl outside Penny's in D/L, can't be much older that 16 -17 if even that, claiming she's homeless but by the way she's dressed I just knew there's no way she's homeless.
I gave her a euro a couple of times and tried asking her some simple questions one day like, what age are you, where are you staying, etc and she would just shrug like she couldn't understand me, yeah right. So about three weeks ago I sat on one of the granite seats near her and pretended to read my book. Sure enough about 20 mins later a bloke came over to her and bent down as if to speak to her and she passed him any cash she had from an inside pocket. He then slithered away and hid in a doorway opposite Whisky Fair Pub keeping an eye on her.
Question is how do even report this and to whom? Gardai? HSE? Are they going to do anything about it? I doubt that very much so I have said nothing to either. Is that a defeatist attitude or am I just another individual who thinks what's the point, because that's the direction this lawless society is going. If the Gardai can't be bothered with the Addicts screaming around the town and the HSE can't be bothered going near them either for child abuse (stuffing them with fries nuggets and coke from McDeath's everyday), are they going to be the slightest bit bothered about the begging scenario?
Point is that these criminal gangs from abroad are exploiting these kids to go out and beg all day and they amass a tidy sum too. Did you see the documentary about the begging scams on our streets?
So these guys like the creep in the doorway will never be prosecuted for anything, because begging is not a crime anyway but what about that child that's being used for their gain? Would the Gardai or HSE follow up on a complaint?



Are you saying jail is the solution to keep troublesome minors off the streets? How can such persons, if they are placing a minor under duress, to perform on street begging against their will, be stopped, if people such as yourself do not report it? The person who fails to report is almost as bad as the alleged offender.But it is a serious matter to say with authority that this alleged incident to which you refer is a criminal enterprise, without proper evidence held and in the absence of a professional investigation. You ignored my the majority of my post and highlighted the serious problem of on street begging, for which incarceration of the minor or offender was never an appropriate solution, as i'm sure you would agree.I suspect you have not reported it but you should report it Strum. Non reporting adds to the problem.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Toss » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:02 pm

gingertom wrote:Are you saying jail is the solution to keep troublesome minors off the streets? How can such persons, if they are placing a minor under duress, to perform on street begging against their will, be stopped, if people such as yourself do not report it? The person who fails to report is almost as bad as the alleged offender.But it is a serious matter to say with authority that this alleged incident to which you refer is a criminal enterprise, without proper evidence held and in the absence of a professional investigation. You ignored my the majority of my post and highlighted the serious problem of on street begging, for which incarceration of the minor or offender was never an appropriate solution, as i'm sure you would agree.I suspect you have not reported it but you should report it Strum. Non reporting adds to the problem.


I agree that we should all report suspicious activity of any sort ..... but it does beg the question: what about our Gardai, social workers, politicians, councillors etc they all walk the same streets as us and must see such activities. I understand that Dun Laoghhaire Gardai have CCTV, are we to believe they dont record whats going on?

Lets face it GT, the begging business is well known by all that walk our streets or stop at certain traffic lights. Nobody is saying putting people in jail is the answer, but something has to be done ...... everyone cannot stick their head in the sand and ignore the obvious. Personally I would happily introduce a national identity card and anyone caught begging without an ID be detained until such time as their identity is confirmed (in person by parents if they are minors). Once identities have been confirmed, it should not be hard to find out their circumstances ...... lets not forget our state spends fortunes in family supports etc surely the least we should expect in return is that those claiming benefits are not rewarded for crime.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Strum » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:45 pm

gingertom wrote: Are you saying jail is the solution to keep troublesome minors off the streets? How can such persons, if they are placing a minor under duress, to perform on street begging against their will, be stopped, if people such as yourself do not report it? The person who fails to report is almost as bad as the alleged offender.But it is a serious matter to say with authority that this alleged incident to which you refer is a criminal enterprise, without proper evidence held and in the absence of a professional investigation. You ignored my the majority of my post and highlighted the serious problem of on street begging, for which incarceration of the minor or offender was never an appropriate solution, as i'm sure you would agree.I suspect you have not reported it but you should report it Strum. Non reporting adds to the problem.



I think you picked me up wrong there GT. I was referring Toss's comment...

Should gangs use minors to carry out certain tasks, what is the law regarding the 'fagans' of the modern world ? has anyone ever been charged with such activity ?
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:45 pm

Toss wrote:
gingertom wrote:Are you saying jail is the solution to keep troublesome minors off the streets? How can such persons, if they are placing a minor under duress, to perform on street begging against their will, be stopped, if people such as yourself do not report it? The person who fails to report is almost as bad as the alleged offender.But it is a serious matter to say with authority that this alleged incident to which you refer is a criminal enterprise, without proper evidence held and in the absence of a professional investigation. You ignored my the majority of my post and highlighted the serious problem of on street begging, for which incarceration of the minor or offender was never an appropriate solution, as i'm sure you would agree.I suspect you have not reported it but you should report it Strum. Non reporting adds to the problem.


I agree that we should all report suspicious activity of any sort ..... but it does beg the question: what about our Gardai, social workers, politicians, councillors etc they all walk the same streets as us and must see such activities. I understand that Dun Laoghhaire Gardai have CCTV, are we to believe they dont record whats going on?

Lets face it GT, the begging business is well known by all that walk our streets or stop at certain traffic lights. Nobody is saying putting people in jail is the answer, but something has to be done ...... everyone cannot stick their head in the sand and ignore the obvious. Personally I would happily introduce a national identity card and anyone caught begging without an ID be detained until such time as their identity is confirmed (in person by parents if they are minors). Once identities have been confirmed, it should not be hard to find out their circumstances ...... lets not forget our state spends fortunes in family supports etc surely the least we should expect in return is that those claiming benefits are not rewarded for crime.


Putting those who place a child in public, under duress, to beg, is something that should be reported to relevant authorities. That is, An Garda Síochána or the Health Service Executive. To enunciate such on a public forum, without proper authority is wrong and grossly irresponsible. Imagine if these people were under surveillance by state authorities...........Of course society cannot stick their heads in the sand, but minors have significant constitutional rights in terms of haebus corpus.Again we need our legislators to step up to the plate and create proper laws to deal with these issues. The days of Lugs Brannigan are gone. Im sure our ancient contributors will wish that his ilk would return but it was his peers, also in uniform , who inflicted such awfulness on children decades ago. Our legislators are the problem. If the law is there to avail of, the courts will apply it. This applies to our intransigent local councillors too.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:56 pm

Strum wrote:
gingertom wrote: Are you saying jail is the solution to keep troublesome minors off the streets? How can such persons, if they are placing a minor under duress, to perform on street begging against their will, be stopped, if people such as yourself do not report it? The person who fails to report is almost as bad as the alleged offender.But it is a serious matter to say with authority that this alleged incident to which you refer is a criminal enterprise, without proper evidence held and in the absence of a professional investigation. You ignored my the majority of my post and highlighted the serious problem of on street begging, for which incarceration of the minor or offender was never an appropriate solution, as i'm sure you would agree.I suspect you have not reported it but you should report it Strum. Non reporting adds to the problem.



I think you picked me up wrong there GT. I was referring Toss's comment...

Should gangs use minors to carry out certain tasks, what is the law regarding the 'fagans' of the modern world ? has anyone ever been charged with such activity ?


Interesting.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Strum » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:22 am

GT wrote:To enunciate such on a public forum, without proper authority is wrong and grossly irresponsible.


Why? It's bringing awareness to said Gardai it they're looking into sites like this. No names are mentioned apart from the locations of these two individuals, and if the Gardai were on there toes and read this, then they know exactly where to look. I'm doing them a service by posting that so.

I understand that Dun Laoghhaire Gardai have CCTV, are we to believe they dont record whats going on?


If they were I wouldn't have had to post that comment. I was also replying to your link to the law and reference to, that it's a criminal offence to exploit innocent Children. Is that young Girl knowingly involved or has no choice?
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Toss » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:00 am

gingertom wrote:Our legislators are the problem. If the law is there to avail of, the courts will apply it. This applies to our intransigent local councillors too.


Which of course begs the question .... who is responsible for legislators ?

Its getting like the chicken and egg quandry ..... those who are responsible for developing legislation seem somewhat hesitant to introduce legislation that may strain their popularity in certain sections.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:24 am

Strum wrote:
GT wrote:To enunciate such on a public forum, without proper authority is wrong and grossly irresponsible.


Why? It's bringing awareness to said Gardai it they're looking into sites like this. No names are mentioned apart from the locations of these two individuals, and if the Gardai were on there toes and read this, then they know exactly where to look. I'm doing them a service by posting that so.

I understand that Dun Laoghhaire Gardai have CCTV, are we to believe they dont record whats going on?


If they were I wouldn't have had to post that comment. I was also replying to your link to the law and reference to, that it's a criminal offence to exploit innocent Children. Is that young Girl knowingly involved or has no choice?


Reporting is the correct way to inform the authorities. Again a proper investigation would answer this questions, not a shout out on the internet.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Rocker » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:01 am

Gingertom,

As you say reporting is the correct way to inform the authorities.
Maybe I have got cynical in my old age but a lot of people are like me. First of all they don't know the correct person or authority to report a matter to. I would normally go to the police and report anything but over the last number of years my personal experience with the police was negative I felt vulnerable and decided I was on my own from now on and don't rely on the police.

I don't think we shout out here on the internet but, try to share our concerns and really ask for guidance. The old order is changing and old people like me are cringing in the corners and afraid of reprecussions if we tackle the problem ourselves. I for one can't run now and can't defend myself as I used to.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:14 am

Rocker wrote:Gingertom,

As you say reporting is the correct way to inform the authorities.
Maybe I have got cynical in my old age but a lot of people are like me. First of all they don't know the correct person or authority to report a matter to. I would normally go to the police and report anything but over the last number of years my personal experience with the police was negative I felt vulnerable and decided I was on my own from now on and don't rely on the police.

I don't think we shout out here on the internet but, try to share our concerns and really ask for guidance. The old order is changing and old people like me are cringing in the corners and afraid of reprecussions if we tackle the problem ourselves. I for one can't run now and can't defend myself as I used to.


http://www.tusla.ie/children-first/how- ... port-abuse

Hope this helps.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Rocker » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:34 pm

Thank you for that gingertom. I will definitely be more pro active about reporting things.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby gingertom » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Rocker wrote:Thank you for that gingertom. I will definitely be more pro active about reporting things.


Glad to help. Turning a blind eye to any potential crime or wrongdoing adds to the problem. I fully appreciate that depending upon the nature of the incident, it may take guts to follow it through, beyond the initial reportage. If it is reported in good faith, there is protection for the individual. It is all too easy to complain but not act. If enough citizens rang the Dept of Justice daily to complain, the state would have no choice to listen. Legislators will and do view, public silence, as public capitulation and therefore believe it to be a tacit acceptance of the status quo in all aspects of Irish societal conditions, as they now stand, if we fail to speak up in opposition.
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Rocker » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:59 am

Gingertom, I hadn't realised just how wide range the scope of the Department of Justice is...

http://www.justice.ie/
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Denis Cromie » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:51 am

I must say I enjoy this type of intelligent discourse it opens the mind to what can and should be done about street begging. wuu
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Re: Know yer town do ye?

Postby Toss » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:31 pm

Denis Cromie wrote:I must say I enjoy this type of intelligent discourse it opens the mind to what can and should be done about street begging. wuu


in the light of Aer Lingus's secret humanitarian relocation programme, I wonder will the issue of a national Photo identity card arise ..... personally I have no objections as I have nothing to hide and think it would solve a huge amount of issues (welfare fraud for a start). I know someone who works on the census and she is adamant that there are thousands of illegals living around the south dublin area, this from her experiences at the doors of houses (one house was well into double figures as the renter said her family had come over on hols :roll: ).

Like any problem, until you find out the extent of it ... you cannot be expected to have a solution. ID cards would go a long way to helping us help those who are really in need of help as opposed to those who are blagging the system.
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