John Davy 1876-1904

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John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:20 am

Hello all.
This is my first post.
I am researching my wife's DAVY family history and have only got back to her great grandparents born c.1850. In particular however we would like to discover where her grandfather, John Davy, is buried. He died on the 9th Sept 1904, and the Coroner released his body for burial on the same day. John was killed in a car accident, he was a passenger at the time and the car rolled on Marlton Hill, Wicklow, and we were led to believe that he was buried in Glasnevin Cemetery but a search by cemetery staff can find no record for John's burial. They have suggested. Deans Grange Cemetery as the family are Catholic.
First, are there any online records for Deans Grange that i could search?
Second, if no online records, is there anybody living in the vicinity of Deans Grange who would have the time to pop into the office and check for John for a few days following the 9th Sept 1904?
Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. Living in New Zealand makes Irish research a bit of a challenge.
Cheers.
Kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Snowhite » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:47 am

Hiya Kiwilong Welcome to the site hellllo

Found this Not sure if it's who your looking for, there is a Marlton Rd in Wicklow which is only about 17mins by car to Rathdrum, was John from Wicklow ? or did he live in Dun Laoghaire/Kingstown ? if from Wicklow I'd say he is buried in Rathdrum, but if the latter then most likely he will be buried in Deansgrange. There are no records online for Deansgrange but there is a records office in the Cemetary. ;) The more info you can give, people on here are always only to happy to help in anyway they can. Best of Luck with your search 8-)


Name:
John Finlan Davy

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1874

Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1904

Death Age:
30

Registration district:
Rathdrum
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Toss » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:18 am

kiwilong wrote:Hello all.
This is my first post.
I am researching my wife's DAVY family history and have only got back to her great grandparents born c.1850. In particular however we would like to discover where her grandfather, John Davy, is buried. He died on the 9th Sept 1904, and the Coroner released his body for burial on the same day. John was killed in a car accident, he was a passenger at the time and the car rolled on Marlton Hill, Wicklow, and we were led to believe that he was buried in Glasnevin Cemetery but a search by cemetery staff can find no record for John's burial. They have suggested. Deans Grange Cemetery as the family are Catholic.
First, are there any online records for Deans Grange that i could search?
Second, if no online records, is there anybody living in the vicinity of Deans Grange who would have the time to pop into the office and check for John for a few days following the 9th Sept 1904?
Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. Living in New Zealand makes Irish research a bit of a challenge.
Cheers.
Kiwilong.


In 1904 there were a total of 58 cars registered in Ireland http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/pages-in-history/Ireland%20in%201904/index.xml given that number, it may well be you could find out more about the accident by researching the cars from that era.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:12 am

Hello snowhite and Toss.
Just seen your posts but getting time for bed here so would be best if i reply in the morning NZ time.
Cheers.
Kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby skins » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:29 pm

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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby skins » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:43 pm

Rocker,
The Rathdrum bit can be misleading, it's just the place of registration, rather like you and I being registered as being born in Rathdown. If the gentleman was from the Wicklow Town area he could have been buried in Rathnew cemetery. Also it's possible that if he were a Protestant he could have been buried in his local parish churchyard. But the chap you found does sound to me like the guy Kiwilong is looking for alright.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby skins » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:50 pm

Only two John Davy's mentioned in 1901 Census, both Dublin City residents: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/s ... renLiving=
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:24 pm

Good morning Snowhite,Toss and Skins.
Thanks for all the posts, just great.
First: Snowhite. You are correct ,the registration you mention is I am sure our John although his name was actually John Finbar Davy, a transcription error I assume.
John's address in 1901 was House 63.3, Lower Clanbrassil Street, Merchants Quay, Dublin, and his widow lived in house 72, Tillystown, Rathmichael, Dublin in 1911. It's probable that he lived at the 1901 address in 1904. Would this address more likely point to Deansgrange? the family were Catholic.
Second: Toss. I do have the newspaper report of the accident dated 9th Sept 1904. John was a passenger in a car owned by a Mr John Naish-Gray but he was actually the chauffeur and the owner had decided to have a drive himself, perhaps he was going too fast but a rear wheel (wooden) calapsed and the car rolled over onto John.
Third: Skins.Yes, the 2003 Irish Times artical you mention certainly relates to our John Davy. The Davy family achieve fame in 2003 dispite leaving Ireland in 1937. my wife was born in Ireland in 1937 but her younger sister was born in Manchester in 1939.
Our John is married to Annie in the 1901 census and Augustine is my wife's father who was born in 1897.
Well folks, does any of that help with locating John's place of rest. Although we know a lot about John's short life, 28 years, we would really like to Know where he is buried. Thanks for all your help, really appreciated. Cheers. Kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Micheál » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:09 pm

A long sideways shot.

Is it possible that John Davy was a permanent chauffer to the Grays and not just attending to them on the day? Meaning he lived with or near them and , therefore was buried somewhere nears the Grays homeplace which, at the time was in Walworth, London? They seem to have been holidaying in Ireland when the accident happened.

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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:47 am

Deansgrange Cemetery is run by Dún Laoghaire County Council. You could write to them at
Deansgrange Cemetery,
Deansgrange,
Blackrock,
Co Dublin.

Please note that neither Dean’s Grange nor Shanganagh cemeteries records are computerised and therefore in order to locate a grave the following is required:

1. Date/Year of death or burial.
2. Full name and last address of the deceased.
The Council only holds records for Dean’s Grange, Shanganagh and Kilgobbin cemeteries.

Deansgrange Cemetery Office, Blackrock, Co. Dublin

Telephone: 01-2893416
email: cemeteries@dlrcoco.ie

I'd say if you e mailed them and explained that you are in New Zealand they would do a quick look up and tell you if in fact he is buried in Deansgrange.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:10 am

That 1901 census is interesting. It shows that John Davy was originally from Leeds in England. Annie his wife may have been married before as in the 1911 census she shows her son james with the surname Walsh. This is just idle interest on my part.

In 1911 they are living in Tillystown. Just recently we had a discussion on this site about Tillytown and this was the old name for a place called Shankill which is quite near Deansgrange. I doubt if John Davy was living in England with John Naish-Grey. Would his family have returned to Ireland after his death ??just my opinion.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:28 am

Hello Micheal and Rocker.
Thanks for your posts.
First:Micheal. I don't think that John was the Gray's permanent Chauffeur although could be I suppose but John was a jack of all trades, mechanic, bicycle mechanic, watchmaker and boot maker to mention just the ones I know about. Certainly he and Annie were living in Dublin during the 1890's and the 1901 census.The Gray's were on holiday and John appears to have been employed to drive them on a tour of Dublin and Wicklow.
Second: Rocker.
Thanks for the email address and I will try as you suggest, I have found people and organisations remarkably helpful around the world.
Now, the 1901 census!! you are quite correct, John was born in Leeds, Yorkshire, and Annie had been previously married to a Patrick Walsh in 1891 who died shortly thereafter but there was the son,James.
John's parents, William and Margaret according to the 1911 census ( could'nt find them in 1901) had 10 children, 5 still alive, and all born in Dublin except John. I eventually found his baptism in Leeds in 1876, parents as above and William's occupation correct, a Currier (leather worker) so there is no doubt.
I think they may have been visiting a Davy family in Leeds at the time John was born. It took me a long time to sort out The Davy family in Dublin as none of the current family had any useful knowledge of the Dublin connection.
So, I am sure that until the widow Annie relocated to Manchester, about 1920 I think because the 4 youngest children were all married in Manchester in the early 1920's,the family lived in Dublin. My wife's parents married in Dublin in 1920 however.
Thanks again and cheers.
Kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:00 am

Kiwilong,

You have done remarkable research into your wife's family. Well done you! as i know just how difficult it is to get leads on anything in Irish genealogy.

Family stories are of great human interest and the further we delve into our forefathers the more we realise just how lucky we are to have had such tough, men and women who survived the really appalling times in the Ireland of the famine and deprivation.

I hope you have luck finding the resting place of John Davy. I have been known to stand in tears under trees in Deansgrange Cemetery and look at the bare land where my poor relatives were buried . There are no headstones in places (families could not afford them)and many of the poor were buried in large plots but, the records in the graveyard are meticulously kept and if he is there they will give an exact resting place for him.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby johndle » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:48 pm

Hi Kiwilong

If you go to
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/ ... ge-ndx.htm
They have transcribed as well as Photo's of some of the headstones in Deansgrange
Go to the text version of the pages and use Contol F, enter the name Davy and see if it
throws up any finds for Davy, It will take some time as there are a good few pages, but
they hav'ent finished referencing the whole cemetery yet.
The microfilms for Deansgrange cemetery are held in Pearse st. Library, Dublin.
They are copies of the Latter Day Saints records, you might also check the LDS online
records, it may show up there.
Good Luck
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:43 pm

Hello johndle.
Thanks for the suggestions, willl give them a try.
Deans Grange turned out not to be John Davy's final destination. Are there any other suggestions for a Catholic burial in south Dublin?
Thanks folks.
Kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Zirco » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:06 pm

kiwilong wrote:Hello johndle.
Thanks for the suggestions, willl give them a try.
Deans Grange turned out not to be John Davy's final destination. Are there any other suggestions for a Catholic burial in south Dublin?
Thanks folks.
Kiwilong.


Hi Kiwilong,
So, not Deansgrange, OK.
He lived on Clanbrassil Street at the time......1904.
Have you established the Catholic parish this equates to?
There may be a death record in the parish record. If you are very lucky, it may be online at www.nli.ie, Catholic Parishes link.
I don't know which parish Clanbrassil Street is in, sorry.
Good luck with your quest! :lol:
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:14 pm

Had a look in Irishgenealogy.ie site and found a baptism for an Antony Finbar Davey 10 September 1901 living at 41 Clanbrassil Street and the Cathloic Church at which he was christenend was Harrington Street Church. That must have been the Parish for Clanrrassil St.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... DUBLIN+(RC)&parish=&century=&decade=&sort=&pageSize=100&ddBfrom=&mmBfrom=&yyBfrom=&ddMfrom=&mmMfrom=&yyMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddBto=&mmBto=&yyBto=&ddMto=&mmMto=&yyMto=&ddDto=&mmDto=&yyDto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&event=&keyword=&submit=Search

drat !!! the link won't take just go into the irishgenealogy.ie site click on church records answer the cryptic question and seek John Davy 1904.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:34 pm

While I was looking at those church records on irishgenealogy.ie i came across the marriage of William Davy to Margaret Paylon both of Dolphins Barn on 24 November 1873 at St james Church. May be of some interest to you.

Try Mount Jerome Cemetery that is in Harold's Cross and was a popular burial place for Protestants....maybe John Naish-Grey arranged his funeral and paid for it and Mt Jerome would have been recommended to him.

http://www.mountjerome.ie/
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Zirco » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:42 pm

Rocker wrote:Had a look in Irishgenealogy.ie site and found a baptism for an Antony Finbar Davey 10 September 1901 living at 41 Clanbrassil Street and the Cathloic Church at which he was christenend was Harrington Street Church. That must have been the Parish for Clanrrassil St.


Ditto Rocker.......as below
Area - DUBLIN (RC), Parish/Church/Congregation - HARRINGTON STREET
Baptism of ANTONY FINBAR DAVEY of 41 LR CLANBRASSIL ST on 10 September 1901
Name ANTONY FINBAR DAVEY
Address 41 LR CLANBRASSIL ST
Father JOHN DAVEY
Mother ANNA BUTLER
Date of Birth 4 September 1901
Sponsor 1 MARY COMERFORD





House number is not 63, and no son named Antony in the 1901 census. dontknow
Also, checked for a burial record for John Davy in Harrington Street parish on line.....sadly no burial records for 1904 available. :roll:

Kiwilong......may I ask what was John's wife's maiden name please?
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:54 am

hello Zirco and Rocker.
Thanks again for all your efforts on my behalf.
First, I have emailed "info" at Mt Jerome and await results, probably a fond hope but who knows!!!
Still not sure which parish applies to Clanbrassil Street, to be honest I find the whole business of parish, townlands and baroneys, etc, to be beyond my comprehension, I'm sure it all makes sense to someone.
I didn't find anything at www.nli.ie either.
The Antony Finbar Davey you found Rocker is my wife's uncle and his record is dated 1901 so I was hoping to find his sister on the same site as she was Annie Mary Davy (Davey) born 1903 which would have given me an address nearer to 1904 but no luck.
This irishgenealogy site didn't give me John's death unfortunately either but the marriage you found is interesting.
In 2013 I found John's parent's marriage on fmp but as is usual in these cases the info was in 1873 between William Davy and a choice of 4 spouse's, and knowing the wife to be Margaret Phelan (pelin) i knew it to be the correct year because of the mother's surname on the B/C. But one of the other names was Margaret Payton, the marriage you found Rocker, so two William Davy's married a Margaret on the same day, same church and same register page.
So I now know that the date was 24th Nov 1873 and the church was St James. That's a plus for me.
A couple of things, Antony appears in the 1911 census but not 1901 because he was born after the census was taken, i.e. Sept 1901.
John's wife's maiden name was Butler and her christian name Anne (Annie). She married first in 1891 to Patrick Walsh so when she married John in 1897 she married as a "Walsh", and a widow, but she gave the Butler name when registering the Davy children. Not sure if this was right or wrong.
I think that's it for now, hope I've answered all the questions and thanks again.
Cheers.
kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:42 am

kiwilong,

You have probably looked at the Parish registers for St James

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0496

and Harrington St

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0517

but just in case you haven't here are links. These take a lot of trawling but, I have been so luck with my search it is worth the effort.

As you can see we are all amateurs here but sometimes stumble on things by chance !!
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:12 am

Morning Rocker.
Thanks for the links, i was looking at what i thought were limited transcripts.
By browsing I found the 1873 William and Margaret marriage and i now think the one you found and my original are one and the same due to difficulties in transcribing Margaret's maiden name, Phelan and Payton, only one William married that day.
Also found baptisms for my wife's twin uncles and Antony Finbar. So not all a waste of time. I was hoping to find a baptism in 1903 for the youngest sibling for address detail but the available registers finished at 1901.
Had a reply from Mt Jerome cemetery, no John Davy there.
I'm beginning to wonder if Annie buried him in the back garden (if they had one)
They have suggested I try Wicklow County Council so I will give it a go.
Cheers.
kiwilong.
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:25 am

Ha kiwilong, you have caught the family research bug.....every little snippet helps and wsrite it down and also write down where you found the info. I have so many reams of notes with no details of where I found the stuff!!!

I had a look at those St James records for William and Margaret and the interesting fact is that although they were both from Dolphins Barn (an area of Dublin)one of their witness was from Clanbrassil St..... Maria McDermott this might be a link as to why they went on to live in Clanbrassil Street. Maybe McDermotts are cousins on the Payton side?

I know this is far removed from where John Davy might be buried but, could be an interesting link to the past.

I don't have any subscriptions to old newspapers but, there may be an article in the papers of the time about the accident and that might say where john was being buried. Just a thought ...you have probably exhausted this already.

Did you rule out any Jewish roots? This fellow Stuart Rosenblatt is an expert http://www.irishjewishroots.com/names/p ... ns.html....
there is a Jewish cemetery in Dolphins Barn....I'm a real long shot person. :lol: :lol:
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby kiwilong » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:45 pm

Hello Rocker.
Well, i hadn't considered the jewish proposal, may leave that for the time being.
I think i will go off on a completely new tack considering the following:-
John died in a car accident on Marlton hill (Marlton Road) i assume.
He was taken to the County Infirmary (Wicklow i assume) where he died.
John and Annie lived in one room with 5 children on Clanbrassil Street some 30 to40 km away from Wicklow. They probably had very little money and bringing John back to Dublin expensive.
His death was registered in Rathdrum registration district.
The damaged car was returned to Dublin by rail apparently.
So, possible conclusion, his burial was arranged locally and he is buried in a cemetery close to the infirmary.

I did get a very comprehensive news paper report some years ago, downloaded from the Irish Times, 9th Sept 1904. Bought a 24 hour time slot. No mention of where he was buried however.

By the way, i did read somewhere that Catholic parish records are good for baptisms and marriages but not so good on burials so i think only cemetery records will eventually answer my questions.

My sister originally researched our family the hard way, no computors at the time, and i took it on about 10 years ago. Us amateur genealogists don't realize the importance of a good filing system when we start and as you say, wind up with a huge amount of material poorly filed.
Well rocker, really appreciate your efforts.
Kiwilong
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Re: John Davy 1876-1904

Postby Rocker » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:54 am

kiwilong,
I really have enjoyed the story of John Davy. It is baffling. There is a great English site (free) www.rootschat.org. They have a great Irish section and there are loads of amateur genealogist who look in every day from Ireland. The Wicklow section has some particularly good snoops.One of them was so helpful finding a difficult part of my family tree.

When you log on go to Forum,scroll down to Ireland (historical counties),click on Ireland,then go to Wicklow. Put your query there and you may get some local expert to help.

The big problem with the poorer people in the early 1900's is that they were buried in shared graves and graves without headstones so unless you can find the exact graveyard and get access to the records you won't find anything on line.
Johndle gave you the link to the IGP archives above. A few dedicated people have gone around for years cleaning headstones and recording the details from each headstone, putting the info on line and photographing the headstones. Unfortunately they cannot record those without headstones (such as my family)!.

I for one will keep snooping and if I tumble on anything will record it her.
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