Roger Casement

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Roger Casement

Postby Micheál » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:00 pm

About time we got round to discussing this.

Is a memorial in Dún Laoghaire justified?

http://visualartists.ie/jobs-ops/commissions/open-call-dlr-announce-120000-euro-roger-casement-memorial-commission/

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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Strum » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:39 am

I saw that yesterday Michael. 120 grand is a hell of an amount of money for a sculpture. :o
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Toss » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:37 pm

Strum wrote:I saw that yesterday Michael. 120 grand is a hell of an amount of money for a sculpture. :o


Dont worry Strum, its a mere pittance when compared to other spends by our council. No doubt its great value when you consider the artist will probably only get 10% after the usual suspects such as advisors / consultants / committees get looked after ... everyones a winner and nobody questions why the streets are empty :D
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Gulliver » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:40 pm

Toss
I'd be delighted to help you get on the DLRCOCO Public Art Steering Group - then you'd find out how the funds are managed - and it's not like what you suggest. We give our time voluntarily - we get a cup of coffee at each meeting. That's it!
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Toss » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:28 pm

Gulliver wrote:Toss
I'd be delighted to help you get on the DLRCOCO Public Art Steering Group - then you'd find out how the funds are managed - and it's not like what you suggest. We give our time voluntarily - we get a cup of coffee at each meeting. That's it!


Fair play Gulliver, I am happy to hear that about your group as opposed to say the Harbour Boards costs and its good to know we have someone on the inside who can tell us where the £120,000 goes. I am well aware that many people give their time free of charge on some public groups (as I have done on many occasions in the past). I look forward to learning how much the artist is paid in total, if this project goes ahead.
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Micheál » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:24 pm

To be honest, I was less concerned at the 'value' of any artistic undertaking and more interested in hearing views on WHO is being commemorated.

So here's goes with my take on this . . .

1. RCs association with Dún Laoghaire is, to say the least, very tenuous. He may have been born here but he had left ( for Antrim) while still very young and could have made little by way of memories or experience in the locality
2. His humanitarian campaigns in the Congo and South America were remarkable and Worthy of appreciation.
3. His consorting with his own Governments direct enemies during wartime was treasonous.
4. His supposed anti-imperialist "awakening" is contradicted by his enthusiastic dealings with an equally Imperialist power ( all the more remarkable when you consider this was done after he had uncovered imperialist corruption by the Belgians and UK corporations).
5. His self-described exploits with "youths" ( as evidenced by his now proven diaries) are reprehensible and can't continue to be ignored ( as is currently the case in the media).

All in all, I don't think a memorial in Dún Laoghaire, or anywhere else, is appropriate.

DIscuss!

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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Toss » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:03 pm

Micheál wrote:So here's goes with my take on this . . .

His self-described exploits with "youths" ( as evidenced by his now proven diaries) are reprehensible and can't continue to be ignored ( as is currently the case in the media). :o :o :o

All in all, I don't think a memorial in Dún Laoghaire, or anywhere else, is appropriate.

DIscuss!

M.


I agree, he is not associated with DL in terms of his exploits and I see no reason to attach the town to this mans notoriety tbh. Theres also the issue of where do you draw the line, as there are many many famous Dun Laoghaire people who could also merit such an acknowledgement. I'm sure theres load's of alternative ideas/options that could be explored, but its not my call (If it was, it would not be a priority).
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Rocker » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:31 am

My education is sorely lacking. Somewhere in the mists of time I heard the name of Casement but, up until few months ago when I heard a radio programme about his life I did not know anything about him.

It would take me a long time to read up on the pros and cons of his imput to Irish history.

I'd say most towns in Ireland are trying desperately to take part in the Rising commerations and trying hard to find links to anyone remotely connected.

I personally wouldn't waste any money on a memorial to a man with very tenuous links to Dún Laoghaire.
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Strum » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:23 pm

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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Micheál » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:19 pm

Strum wrote:This'll cheer you up Michael. :D

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environm ... 1.2756140#


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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Denis Cromie » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:29 pm

Micheál wrote:About time we got round to discussing this.

Is a memorial in Dún Laoghaire justified?

http://visualartists.ie/jobs-ops/commissions/open-call-dlr-announce-120000-euro-roger-casement-memorial-commission/

M.


YEH.
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby grammer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:23 am

No.
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Micheál » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:26 am

Today's IT Letters . .

"Sir, – Further to “Group tries to stop demolition of Casement’s school” (August 15th), there is no mention in records of Roger Casement attending school at St Paul’s National School, in Dublin, or elsewhere. Roger had instead a peripatetic, and difficult, childhood. He certainly did not go directly from Dublin to Ballymena after the death of his mother in 1873. Indeed he did not go there until 1876, at the age of 11 or 12, just a year before his father, Capt Casement, died in the Adair Arms Hotel in the town. Casement’s mother Anne, a north Dublin Protestant whose progressive mother Jane Jephson ran seminaries for girls in north Dublin for many years, died away from her family in Worthing.

There is a revealing 1876 letter from John Young jnr of Wellington Street which I quote in the second edition of my Black Diaries biography. In it, he wrote of the boy Roger who stayed with him while attending the Diocesan School in Ballymena, “not having been at school for 3 years before”. This correspondence is in the possession of the Casement family.

The earlier evidence indicates that although Roger was born in Sandycove in Doyle’s Cottage in 1864, the greater part of his childhood was spent in England. He was baptised on the Isle of Man in 1865, while there is a mention of the family being back in Ireland in 1867 at the time of the Fenian rebellion. Anne is recorded as having her three boys baptised in Rhyl in Wales as Catholics in 1868 when Roger was three.

However letters from Capt Casement, seeking funds from his relatives in Ballycastle, tell of the children being at a series of addresses in and around London in Lambeth, Dalston and Surbiton from 1872 to 1876. The recent revelation from digitised newspapers that Roger at the age of 11, and his older brother Tom, were in court in London in January 1876 on a charge of stealing books suggests this prompted Capt Casement to come home with his youngest child a few months later.

These details matter when myths, big and small, get repeated and while the provenance and authenticity of Casement’s diaries is a political issue of some significance. – Yours, etc,

JEFFREY DUDGEON,
Belfast."
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Toss » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:51 am

Micheál wrote:Today's IT Letters . .

"Sir, – Further to “Group tries to stop demolition of Casement’s school” (August 15th), there is no mention in records of Roger Casement attending school at St Paul’s National School, in Dublin, or elsewhere. Roger had instead a peripatetic, and difficult, childhood. He certainly did not go directly from Dublin to Ballymena after the death of his mother in 1873. Indeed he did not go there until 1876, at the age of 11 or 12, just a year before his father, Capt Casement, died in the Adair Arms Hotel in the town. Casement’s mother Anne, a north Dublin Protestant whose progressive mother Jane Jephson ran seminaries for girls in north Dublin for many years, died away from her family in Worthing.

There is a revealing 1876 letter from John Young jnr of Wellington Street which I quote in the second edition of my Black Diaries biography. In it, he wrote of the boy Roger who stayed with him while attending the Diocesan School in Ballymena, “not having been at school for 3 years before”. This correspondence is in the possession of the Casement family.

The earlier evidence indicates that although Roger was born in Sandycove in Doyle’s Cottage in 1864, the greater part of his childhood was spent in England. He was baptised on the Isle of Man in 1865, while there is a mention of the family being back in Ireland in 1867 at the time of the Fenian rebellion. Anne is recorded as having her three boys baptised in Rhyl in Wales as Catholics in 1868 when Roger was three.

However letters from Capt Casement, seeking funds from his relatives in Ballycastle, tell of the children being at a series of addresses in and around London in Lambeth, Dalston and Surbiton from 1872 to 1876. The recent revelation from digitised newspapers that Roger at the age of 11, and his older brother Tom, were in court in London in January 1876 on a charge of stealing books suggests this prompted Capt Casement to come home with his youngest child a few months later.

These details matter when myths, big and small, get repeated and while the provenance and authenticity of Casement’s diaries is a political issue of some significance. – Yours, etc,

JEFFREY DUDGEON,
Belfast."


I wonder how much gets swept under the carpet when it comes to history. Certainly there appears to be more questions than answers in Roger Casements past and the links to young boys should not be ignored in favour of populist opinion.
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Re: Roger Casement

Postby Micheál » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Short notice but just in case . . .

Roger Casement, Ireland and Great Britain
Tuesday 6 September at 7pm

Speaker: Dr Margaret O’Callaghan, Senior Lecturer, School of Politics, International Studies and Philosophy, Queen’s University, Belfast.

The lecture looks at Casement’s views on Irish history and the Irish past in the context of his view of Ireland’s relationship with Great Britain.

http://www.nli.ie/en/list/current-events.aspx?article=7114f95f-fd45-4c32-9b39-7fe47e2d1992
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