Water and other political issues.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:34 pm

Presently most people now access their news online and don't buy the printed version. In terms of music sales, illegal downloading and the emergence of the digital music version did effectively kill the compact disc but vinyl has always been issued and remains the optimum method for playback quality.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/po ... 77714.html

In terms of the INM pension story........see above.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:46 am

gingertom wrote:Presently most people now access their news online and don't buy the printed version. In terms of music sales, illegal downloading and the emergence of the digital music version did effectively kill the compact disc but vinyl has always been issued and remains the optimum method for playback quality.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/po ... 77714.html

In terms of the INM pension story........see above.


Indeed everything is now online or on your TV, however the print media has not exactly helped itself with some of the outragious headlines and downright lies they have used in some rags .... and these tabloids are all part of bigger groups / stables. I flicked through a copy of the Star in a waiting room recently and it was an eye opener in terms of journalism, every headline was a pun and the paper seems to exist to promote the lives of gangsters and murderers. The IT fights a lone battle in a sea of sensationalist literary diarreha, oh how I miss Crosaire ;)

It was the introduction of mainstream digital music which opened the door to illegal downloading. The music moguls sheer greed killed the industry, they could not resist trying to re-sell old music in new formats... from vinyl to cartridge to compact cassette to micro cassette to laser disc c/d to mini disc to dvd blueray etc. They ripped artists and songwriters off at every opportunity and found that if they released whatever was going to be a guaranteed hit in a new format (at the same time ordering a hold off on the old format) the public couldnt wait and next thing you know they are telling the world that nobody is buying the old format .... hey presto people went out and bought cd versions of the vinyl records they already had in their possession. The record companies thought they were in for another windfall, when if fact it was a step too far and fatal in many ways as they were the ones that opened the door to file sharing.

Ps talk is cheap when you are in opposition ..... I wouldn't be wagering any money on pension changes going through without a lead in time for the paymasters to escape. I would expect it will take years and by then, the companies wishing to ditch their defined benefit schemes will have done so.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Denis Cromie » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:21 am

Toss wrote:Ps talk is cheap when you are in opposition ..... I wouldn't be wagering any money on pension changes going through without a lead in time for the paymasters to escape. I would expect it will take years and by then, the companies wishing to ditch their defined benefit schemes will have done so.


The Brits brought legislation in overnight to deal with this type of skulduggery but our government will consult our Attorney General. dontknow Irish companies have been at this for years and now because it has become more public suddenly action is being considered. You're dead right Toss by the time legislation is enacted the scoundrels pockets will be well lined.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:28 am

All aboard .... the gravy train is still chugging along and the usual suspects have their fingers in the pie :oops:

Irish Water splashed out €5 million on consultants’ fees in the last six months - despite charges being formally suspended. The controversial utility has spent the €5m on outside business strategists, lawyers, computer experts, public relations and finance specialists since the Government stopped the household charges earlier this year. In a statement, Irish Water said that they consider this expenditure to be “cost-effective”. The news will come as a shock to the nearly one million people who have handed over €144m in water charges last year and who don’t know if they will be refunded.

While the future of Irish Water is uncertain, the company have been paying €3,000 a month for the services of a PR company, €32,285 a week to help improve their customer services and €56,800 on average a month on legal services. The Sunday Independent revealed that documents show that nearly €5m was spent on ‘third-party’ services from May 1 to the end of October this year. This includes €775,141 on ‘business change’ support services. Ernst & Young was paid €406,268 for its services and accounting and consultancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers received €123,570. Legal firm McCann Fitzgerald was paid a total of €79,071 since the beginning of May, specialist commercial law firm Philip Lee received payment of €71,438 and Arthur Cox and Company received payments totalling €45,410. PricewaterhouseCoopers received another separate payment of €68,000 for its “support on specific technical investment and engineering projects”. A further €113,277 was spent to ensure the “highest standards of governance” in areas like business analysis, information security and data protection, while PR company Murray Consultants was paid €16,866..

Great work if you can get it :( makes you wonder what IW management actually do all day other than write cheques for consultants ...


Ps

This topic had 20,146 views at the time of posting hellllo
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Rocker » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:52 am

I'm gobsmacked about the level of money being paid to consultants by Irish Water but, I am not surprised. All these outfits or quangos or whatever they call themselves are set up by people who basically know little or nothing about the core business. In Irish Water's case I have forgotten who is was maybe Bord Gais ?? who won the original contract! They (whoever they are) give their big spiel about how they will revolutionise the new project and also the country and maybe even the world. a lot of it is claptrap and flowery language and they have not a halpeworth of wit about the total project.

Then ...they get the contract...scramble OMG what did we say, what did we promise, What will we do ????????????????.
Rule 1 go out and hire consultants.
Rule 2 Ensure the consultants is one of the two or three major consultants firms.
Rule 3 Hire a firm of very well know lawyers, preferably those used by the Government.
Rule 4 Hire a PR company preferably one used by the Government.
Rule 5 Hire some equally well know or used by the Government upstanding men to head up the new company.
Rule 6 Change the company name to divorce it from whoever you were in the first place.
Rule 7 Set an extroardinary level of pay scales for the chosen few.
Rule 8 Lie low and let the dust settle.
Rule 9 Start picking the brains of the ordinary workers in the new place in this case Councils and when you have enough knowledge let those workers go.
Rule 10 Keep the press and media well informed about how difficult the task will be and maybe more money will be needed to achieve the original plans....what were they now???

I hate to give you FREE the benefit of my hard earned life lessons but above is the Blueprint for any takeover of any project.
:lol: :lol: :lol: All that knowledge and me with no University larning or degrees :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:18 pm

Rocker:

Your points are perfect. Companies only hire consultants to confirm what they already know!
I often wished I could have a consultant but unfortunately I was always too blunt, no frills.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:36 pm

Sinead wrote:Rocker:

Your points are perfect. Companies only hire consultants to confirm what they already know!

Sinéad


I think they also hire them to hide behind, as in when they have a plan but know its going to upset their customers or employees. They give the consultant a concise brief of exactly what they want the outcome to be and the CON-sultant spins a web of integrity around the whole thing as if its all done above board and in the best interests of everyone. Should it go wrong, the consultants have been paid and are out of the picture and the company bosses will say they were acting on best advice and best practice when they decided to carry out the recommendations ..... upshot is, the boss stays the boss to repeat the same errors, while the consultant has been paid and is already doing the same for some other entity. The road goes on forever and the party never ends .....

Decision makers are not welcome anymore in certain circles, everything is now disinfected and sterile. We are turning into a nation of nodding dogs and getting bought out by international corporations, Ireland is fast becoming an agency for all sorts of money makers and that is not really a good long term strategy in my uneducated opinion.

views now at 20397 .... 250 + gawks since midnight, thats a lot of visitors. Maybe we should get a consultant to advise us on how to make money out of this lark :lol:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby grammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:57 pm

Toss wrote:
Sinead wrote:Rocker:

Your points are perfect. Companies only hire consultants to confirm what they already know!

Sinéad


I think they also hire them to hide behind, as in when they have a plan but know its going to upset their customers or employees. They give the consultant a concise brief of exactly what they want the outcome to be and the CON-sultant spins a web of integrity around the whole thing as if its all done above board and in the best interests of everyone. Should it go wrong, the consultants have been paid and are out of the picture and the company bosses will say they were acting on best advice and best practice when they decided to carry out the recommendations ..... upshot is, the boss stays the boss to repeat the same errors, while the consultant has been paid and is already doing the same for some other entity. The road goes on forever and the party never ends .....

Decision makers are not welcome anymore in certain circles, everything is now disinfected and sterile. We are turning into a nation of nodding dogs and getting bought out by international corporations, Ireland is fast becoming an agency for all sorts of money makers and that is not really a good long term strategy in my uneducated opinion.

views now at 20397 .... 250 + gawks since midnight, thats a lot of visitors. Maybe we should get a consultant to advise us on how to make money out of this lark :lol:


Very well worded Toss -aint that the truth.

Let's put a committee together and see where we go from here-
We will soon be running out of spaces where all these panels of experts can meet dontknow dontknow dontknow dontknow
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:12 pm

I think a lot of these committees will be virtual!

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:53 pm

Sinead wrote:I think a lot of these committees will be virtual!

Sinbad


:lol: :lol: so long as they cost virtually nothing.

Ps it might be easier to change you name to Sinbad .... Apples predictive text eh.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby grammer » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:50 pm

Toss wrote:
Sinead wrote:I think a lot of these committees will be virtual!

Sinbad


:lol: :lol: so long as they cost virtually nothing.

Ps it might be easier to change you name to Sinbad .... Apples predictive text eh.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:24 am

Toss:

I agree about Apples text but I can't change my name to Sinbad 'cause then I would have to follow through on all the other
'politically correct' crap we are told we must abide by. Just imagine all the operations I would have to have - at my time of life I think I will stay in the sex I was born with. I think when I am having 'senior moments' I forget to correct Apple, mind you, mentally I, like most others on this site, am only in my teens but with lost of experience.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Rocker » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:05 am

This morning I don't know if this is a "Moan" or Political or "media".....What are Fine Gael thinking announcing the rent cap without consulting with their partners in Government, do they not know they are a coalition? Then they get to the Dail chambers and the debate is worse than the worst school yard thugs roar. Then Simon Coveney picks up the ball and says he is not playing any more. Who do they think they are playing politics when the country is in a state of chassis. Not one of them is fit to be in politics.

Half an hour ago I thought I was calming down when the debate on the children's hospital starts on Newstalk. Pat Kenny has these two doctors on and it is like the debates of ten years ago.....Connolly Hospital versus the Mater, green fields sites, brown field sites....How much money has been spent and not a decision yet? who is running this madhouse? and all the while Russia is supposed to have interfered to have Trump elected and the Russian Ambassador to Ireland says the Syrians are lying when they say people have been killed in Alleppo by forces backed by Russia...it is just terrorists....who is running the world madhouse???
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:16 pm

Sinead wrote:Toss:

I agree about Apples text but I can't change my name to Sinbad 'cause then I would have to follow through on all the other
'politically correct' crap we are told we must abide by. Just imagine all the operations I would have to have - at my time of life I think I will stay in the sex I was born with. I think when I am having 'senior moments' I forget to correct Apple, mind you, mentally I, like most others on this site, am only in my teens but with lost of experience.

Sinéad


:lol: :lol: we are all in the same boat, technology is great ... when it works ! and a curse when it fails us.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Strum » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:43 pm

"Like most people in Ireland, I do not think the water service should be privatised, but, sadly, unless we get rid of Irish Water, it might as well be privatised because that is where we are. For want of a better term, Irish Water is another version of the HSE and literally outsourcing just about anything it has on its table. It is carving up the country..."


http://buncranatogether.com/home/2016/1 ... rq=wallace
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:09 pm

Strum wrote:"Like most people in Ireland, I do not think the water service should be privatised, but, sadly, unless we get rid of Irish Water, it might as well be privatised because that is where we are. For want of a better term, Irish Water is another version of the HSE and literally outsourcing just about anything it has on its table. It is carving up the country..."


http://buncranatogether.com/home/2016/1 ... rq=wallace


Sounds familiar and all too true. :cry:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Snowhite » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:52 pm

wuu wuu wuu wuu wuu wuu
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby keeper » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:54 pm

Great speech and delivery, he speaks for us all except the fat cats and gravy train experts. Between the Water protests and now this I'm glad to see the people of Ireland beginning to realise our useless politicians are doing nothing and have to take matters into their own hands, at this rate we'll have to eventually run the country ourselves !!
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:20 am

keeper wrote:Great speech and delivery, he speaks for us all except the fat cats and gravy train experts. Between the Water protests and now this I'm glad to see the people of Ireland beginning to realise our useless politicians are doing nothing and have to take matters into their own hands, at this rate we'll have to eventually run the country ourselves !!


I would like to agree, but the election results say different ..... there may be a few protests and speakers like that chap, but overall people are not voting for change. When you read the list of election promises broken by FG and see that they are still in power, then nothing has changed or is ever likely to. I was amused to hear him talking about 'our Ireland' ...... is it really 'our' Ireland or are we now just all part of a multicultural plot of land that is used for profit by outside interests ? because thats what I think has happened.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Rocker » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:14 am

keeper wrote:Great speech and delivery, he speaks for us all except the fat cats and gravy train experts. Between the Water protests and now this I'm glad to see the people of Ireland beginning to realise our useless politicians are doing nothing and have to take matters into their own hands, at this rate we'll have to eventually run the country ourselves !!


This Appollo House occupation has really grabbed the attention of the man in the street and only one politician that I know of has voiced any opinion on the matter. Fr Peter mcVerry was on the radio this morning and he said the protest has done more to bring the homeless problem to the headlines than any amount of campaigns that the homeless charities have run over the years. Let us hope that we can keep the momentum going and get some positive results.

I have always dreaded being homeless and my parents fought from early on "to keep a roof over our heads". I come from generations of poor house occupants, dirt poor "court" dwellers and one roomed tenements so know how fragile life is and how precarious the gains of each generation are. The greed and mismanagement of the country in the last twenty years had to be experienced to be believed. Let us hope our people can guide themselves safely in these troubled times.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:02 pm

I always seem to be the cautious one. Homelessness has to be awful but I cannot support the Apollo House project. The building is not suitable. I would not have said this a few weeks ago but since then I have had my eyes opened.
A friend is closing up her home and there is lots of bed linen etc. I rang the Fr, McVerry Trust to offer this to them but they had to decline because all the items they use must be fire retardant, this is something I would never have thought of.
I do believe the organisers at Apollo have the very best intentions but I would hate there to be any problem with what they are doing. Fr. McVerry has said homeless people have very special needs and require specialist attention.
I don't know what the answer is, perhaps the action of this group will bring about a permanent solution. That building has no insurance.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Denis Cromie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:44 pm

A very emotive speech but it's not just a small coterie, of what the narrator calls scum, are to blame. I agree with Toss we ourselves have continued to vote in more or less the same political parties to run government and all have been dominated by Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael. We as a people need to recognise that these parties will always favour the wealthy and maybe throw some crumbs to the rest. I like to think that I'm a socialist and I well remember Brendan Corish saying in 1969 that the 70's will be socialist and then the people voted in Charlie Haughey, Ray Burke, Bertie Aherne, Albert Reynolds, Charlie Mc Greevey, John Bruton, socialists how are ya. We still continue to vote for Independents who will never provide a coherent government not to mention Michael Lowry who had a double quota in his Tipperary constituency. I'm afraid we get the people we deserve and until as such time we take greater interest in what is really going on we will continue to see inequality.

Good luck to those involve in Apollo House I hope it improves the plight of the homeless
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 pm

Sinead wrote:I rang the Fr, McVerry Trust to offer this to them but they had to decline because all the items they use must be fire retardant, this is something I would never have thought of. I do believe the organisers at Apollo have the very best intentions but I would hate there to be any problem with what they are doing. Fr. McVerry has said homeless people have very special needs and require specialist attention. I don't know what the answer is, perhaps the action of this group will bring about a permanent solution. That building has no insurance.

Sinéad


I know what you mean Sinead, I have had donations refused and of course I questioned it :roll: . I was fobbed off with the Health & Safety excuse and I managed to get past that one. Next up I was told traceability was an issue and I said the items were bought in Dunnes Stores and never left my house ...... I was asked had I the receipt and original packaging !!!! I was about to blow a gasket when the penny dropped ...... you help someone now and you are opening up a 'claim' opportunity given the way our legal system rewards claimants. When I put this to the person I was offering the donation to, she admitted that was the case and that the very people I (and her organisation) was trying to help, would have no hesitation in looking for easy money thanks to some shameless 'no foal, no fee' solicitors. Before I left, I pointed out I was reared on hand me downs and it did me no harm, she agreed and said we didnt have a claim culture back then. Isn't progress great, we have adopted the worst of American culture and its ignored as everyones making money out of it.

Denis ....I think the Lowry scenario sums up the Irish attitude to politics, the fact that such a chancer tops the polls says it all about the voters.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Strum » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:51 pm

Sinead wrote: Homelessness has to be awful but I cannot support the Apollo House project. The building is not suitable.



I read that the Fire Department gave it the go ahead. :?:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Rocker » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:13 pm

Great news. The Appollo House occupation now has till 11 january.

Loads of people were on the radio today saying the building is not suitable for habitation but a cold wet alley is not suitable either. Better to be indoors and getting warm and dry and a chance to eat and change clothes.

Over my 40 years working I spent my time in very unsatisfactory buildings damp, cold, mildew. In some places the facilities were a couple of ancient toilets and cold water taps. Broken chairs, inadequate desks, inadequate lighting, ventilation. One office I was in for twenty years had over twenty people crammed in smoking, eating, eight hours a day. Appollo House would have been paradise to us.

Some fellow was on the radio saying homeless people got great support in hostels and that would not be so in Appollo. Most people spend their day phoning trying to get a place in a hostel and then have only enough energy to sleep,if they can avoid drugs, intimidation, and trouble of all sorts. I have never heard of great support.But, I have been so lucky that I never had to go and look for a place in a hostel.

Please God something decent will be the outcome of this protest.
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