Water and other political issues.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:20 pm

.
I totally agree Ms Hayes treatment was appalling and thats putting it mildly, as you say ....
Sinead wrote: The judge in the tribunal should have been struck off for his unfounded accusations. The Gardai who assaulted Ms. Hayes should
have been sacked.
but nothing happened and today is no different.

What will happen to those who attempted to falsely accuse Mr Mc Cabe of child sex abuse and went to extreme lenghts to destroy the man ? while thankfully we have moved on in terms of gender equality, it appears that some things never change.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Toss, on this occasion I ask you to put some faith in Charleton. He is very fair, forensic and a quick thinker. I heard
some of his requests for clarification at the Disclosures Tribunal and they were pincer.
Another reason I have faith in him is that he does not have his name attached to this hearing.
You should go into the Castle when the Tribunal is in session.


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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 pm

Sinead wrote:Toss, on this occasion I ask you to put some faith in Charleton. He is very fair, forensic and a quick thinker. I heard
some of his requests for clarification at the Disclosures Tribunal and they were pincer.
Another reason I have faith in him is that he does not have his name attached to this hearing.
You should go into the Castle when the Tribunal is in session.


Sinéad


I really hope you are right and Mr Charleton gets the answers that identify all those who were involved ... should the result be a clear list of the names of those involved and sackings (not resignations because that is a sidestep) then my faith will certainly be restored.

Unfortunately my gut feeling there is too many individuals involved and it goes up the ladder, so I expect we will get a long story with loads of finger pointing at agencies but no end game other than the usual spin about learning valuable lessons, how we have acted swiftly to ensure this never happens again by initiating our new protocols and saying a big thank you to all those who assisted in our investigation.... having said that, I really hope I'm wrong and you are proven right.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Micheál » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:28 am

So will Mr Charlton "put 'em under pressure"?
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby stillorgan boy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:54 am

During the week, Trumps physician Dr. Ronnie Jackson stated that it was his opinion that if Donald Trump ate just a few less cheeseburgers he could live to 200....Thank God for cheeseburgers !
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby keeper » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Denis Cromie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:27 pm

I do hope that Joanna Hayes gets some solace from the exposure of the barbaric treatment she received from the State. It is good the hear the locals gave such great support to the family at the time and continue to do so. There's hope for us all.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:30 pm

This is a case I remember well. At this time I wish the Media would leave the Hayes family alone and stop creating programmes around it. It happened, it was a different time, we did not have instant news at the time. Ireland did not cover itself in glory for very many years. Having said all of that the Hayes family were good people, they welcomed the next generation with open arms and did not lay any blame on her.

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby keeper » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:08 am

I worked on two documentaries about this tragic and horrible event, all I will say is that it had a huge effect on me, there was a huge amount of material that we could not use and I can tell you when on the ground down there it's a different story all together, one thing I can say that Miss Hayes life must be intolerable, she told us off the record she dreads every day because she never knows when the Media are going rake over all the coals again, and the whole saga starts again, I feel so sorry for her and her family, may be this DNA will end her nightmare and baby John can finally rest in peace.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Denis Cromie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:55 am

I think that if they do find baby John's killer,it will be definitive proof that she had no part in that horror. That in itself would be a comfort because I believe that there are still some members of the Gardaí and others who think she and her family were involved.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby keeper » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:04 pm

You're absolutely correct Denis there are lots of Gardai and people think that and many believe the "twins theory " as well. The whole story is awful, God love that family, it's a lifetime penance.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:14 pm

keeper wrote:You're absolutely correct Denis there are lots of Gardai and people think that and many believe the "twins theory " as well. The whole story is awful, God love that family, it's a lifetime penance.


Yet the same self righteous pillars of society turned a blind eye to mass graves in the religious order care homes. :cry:
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Sinead » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:20 pm

As has been said on the air waves 'the charge cannot be uncharged' the summing up of the 'judge' cannot be undone. These matters have not only affected Ms Hayes, her siblings and mother but the following generations as well. The locals did support and protect her. But very few of the reporters at the time had anything to say against proceedings.

Now to another topic which is prominent at the moment - state pensions for women. On this I can say a lot. It was not only in the Civil Service that women had to leave work on marriage. It was throughout all big firms in Ireland. When you married your husband was expected to provide for you and any children that arrived. There were a host of others waiting for the jobs vacated by brides. You sold your stamps back to Social Welfare for the princely sum of £10.00. what you were not told was that you were giving up all your rights and entitlements. In the Dun Laoghaire area you had Mr. Randal going around on his bike ensuring you were not working under the counter. I took early retirement in 2006 because I could not take any more of the suits and mobile phones with nothing between their ears. When eventually I got the State Pension it was a very much reduced one because of the break in Stamps and I had to prove my entitlements. I haven't a clue what the 2012 changes are but the anomalies have been there for years. There is very little institutional knowledge in this country. When I was proving my records I had to explain that for many years the Social Welfare year was 1st July to 30th June while the Tax year was 5th April to 4th April. Now I will definitely shut up or you will all know my age and mentally I am only 21 :oops:

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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Denis Cromie » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:46 pm

Same as meself Sinéad,forever young. That marriage ban was obviously man made,pure misogyny. I remember the wife having to leave Bolands Biscuit factory when we got married and it was just accepted. They were the so called Good Olde Days. BangHead
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:20 pm

.

Just in case anyone is stuck for a few bob ......

https://www.injury-compensation.ie/news/

A recent report by the State Claim Agency has revealed that there was an increase in the cost of compensation claims taken against the State, bringing the overall spend to approximately €2.2 billion during 2016.

This is a 22% increase on the previous year’s figures according to the agency which is responsible for legal actions taken against the State. The total number of case encountered during 2016 was 8,900 at the end of 2016, up from 6,000 in 2015.

Main Reasons for Rise in Compensation Paid Out by the State

The Department of Education settled/paid out compensation claims for roughly €50 million.

€1.9 billion of the €2.2 billion total compensation paid out was by Tusla and the Health Service Executive (HSE).

Anyone who wins a legal action is now entitled to a higher pay out following a Supreme Court ruling to make up for falling returns on the cash.

The Department of Justice and Defence paid out compensation claims worth €175 million compared to €27 million of claims for the the Department of Health.

As part of the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA), the State Claims Agency was set up to address the continual increases in compensation claims being taken against the State.

Séamus McCarthy Comptroller and Auditor General for the NTMA commented saying “The number of claims under management has increased significantly since 2011”.

So there you go, easy money, fill your boots ..... because it seems everyone else is and as someone pointed out to me recently : its just getting your tax back !!!

When will we ever learn ?
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:52 pm

Toss wrote:.

Just in case anyone is stuck for a few bob ......

https://www.injury-compensation.ie/news/

A recent report by the State Claim Agency has revealed that there was an increase in the cost of compensation claims taken against the State, bringing the overall spend to approximately €2.2 billion during 2016.

This is a 22% increase on the previous year’s figures according to the agency which is responsible for legal actions taken against the State. The total number of case encountered during 2016 was 8,900 at the end of 2016, up from 6,000 in 2015.

Main Reasons for Rise in Compensation Paid Out by the State

The Department of Education settled/paid out compensation claims for roughly €50 million.

€1.9 billion of the €2.2 billion total compensation paid out was by Tusla and the Health Service Executive (HSE).

Anyone who wins a legal action is now entitled to a higher pay out following a Supreme Court ruling to make up for falling returns on the cash.

The Department of Justice and Defence paid out compensation claims worth €175 million compared to €27 million of claims for the the Department of Health.

As part of the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA), the State Claims Agency was set up to address the continual increases in compensation claims being taken against the State.

Séamus McCarthy Comptroller and Auditor General for the NTMA commented saying “The number of claims under management has increased significantly since 2011”.

So there you go, easy money, fill your boots ..... because it seems everyone else is and as someone pointed out to me recently : its just getting your tax back !!!

When will we ever learn ?


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3200808

There are safeguards against vexatious, fraudulent and false claims.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004 ... html#sec25

http://irishbarrister.com/claim.html

The link above introduces a level headed appraisal of the subject. Contributors,fill your thoughts with non populist contentions given in the above link which disengage from the polemic argument offered by Toss.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Polemic ? ... a strong verbal or written attack on someone or something ... who or what was that someone or something ? I quoted and referenced a website, gave an opinion and asked questions .... nothing personal.

Maybe you should send all your links to injury-compensation.ie who have absolutely nothing to do with me and obviously are successful.

Personally I would be delighted if any minister had the inclination to enact what could happen as per your last link..."Compensation claim fraudsters could face jail if the Minister for Justice makes perjury a statutory offence" but will it ever happen ?
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:23 pm

Polemic means a one sided argument Toss.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:26 pm

Be level-headed Toss.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:01 pm

gingertom wrote:Polemic means a one sided argument Toss.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/polemic
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:14 am

Toss wrote:
gingertom wrote:Polemic means a one sided argument Toss.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/polemic


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polemic

A more descriptive explanation.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Toss » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:42 pm

gingertom wrote:
Toss wrote:
gingertom wrote:Polemic means a one sided argument Toss.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/polemic


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polemic

A more descriptive explanation.


A polemic (/pəˈlɛmɪk/) is contentious rhetoric that is intended to support a specific position by aggressive claims and undermining of the opposing position. Polemics are mostly seen in arguments about controversial topics. The practice of such argumentation is called polemics. A person who often writes polemics, or who speaks polemically, is called a polemicist.[1] The word is derived from Greek πολεμικός (polemikos), meaning 'warlike, hostile',[1][2] from πόλεμος (polemos), meaning 'war'.[3]

I really am lost on this, because I cannot see any mention of a one sided argument reference ... I see references to aggression, war and hostility.

I certainly deny any hostile intentions in drawing peoples attention to a web site that highlights compensation cases and my questioning whether we are learning how to deal with such content.

People will have to make their own minds up, we can agree to differ.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby gingertom » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:08 pm

Agreed.
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Rocker » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:20 pm

Well Thank God for that !!
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Re: Water and other political issues.

Postby Strum » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:48 am

Rocker wrote:Well Thank God for that !!



:lol:
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